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Subject: "Are we following Dean off a cliff?" This topic is ARCHIVED.
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NHjaySat Aug-02-03 08:03 AM
Member since Apr 22nd 2002
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"Are we following Dean off a cliff?"


          

Chicago Sun-Times editorial suggests Dems are heading for disaster with Dean. ( I believe it's an editorial, I cannot find a by-line)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/otherviews/cst-edt-mort02.html

On the basis of political momentum, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean is now the frontrunner for the Democrats' 2004 presidential nomination. And if history is any guide, he's in the process of leading the party to disastrous defeat.

Dean has roared from obscurity by expressing--and fueling--the near-hatred that Democratic activists feel for President Bush and all his works, especially the Iraq war. The danger is that the party will put itself in the same position it occupied in 1972, 1984 and 1988--far to the left of mainstream American opinion--and it will lose the election in a landslide.

  

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Hating Bush is not a left wing position, Von Rex, Aug-02-03 08:18 AM, #1
There's a difference, mykej, Aug-02-03 09:07 AM, #8
Please provide an example, Binky, Aug-02-03 09:13 AM, #9
I don't think he has, mykej, Aug-02-03 10:13 AM, #21
We will win on ideas, Demgirl, Aug-02-03 10:19 AM, #22
RE: Hating Bush is not a left wing position, Chris Andersen, Aug-02-03 02:10 PM, #34
Is this nation going off a cliff with George?, Rickb, Aug-02-03 08:20 AM, #2
Well, if this is going to be the inexorable drumbeat ..., samela, Aug-02-03 08:25 AM, #3
Nah. It'll be Clark/Hillary dontcha think?, felix19, Aug-02-03 10:00 AM, #19
Hillary said she would not run for the Presidency in '04, RussBLib, Aug-02-03 10:26 AM, #24
Several of these articles appearing lately, Demgirl, Aug-02-03 10:21 AM, #23
As a supporter of Dean..., Nazgul35, Aug-02-03 11:56 AM, #31
RE: Well, if this is going to be the inexorable drumbeat ..., Chris Andersen, Aug-02-03 02:19 PM, #35
Ralph Nader said there was no difference between the parties, YellowDogJen, Aug-02-03 08:26 AM, #4
More of this out there, NHjay, Aug-02-03 08:45 AM, #6
Don't forget, Dean's emblem is a BASEBALL BAT, felix19, Aug-02-03 10:03 AM, #20
Counter-Editorial: Are the Republicans Headed For Disaster..., Party_like_its_1984, Aug-02-03 08:34 AM, #5
No, we are following him THROUGH A WALL..., lipreader, Aug-02-03 08:47 AM, #7
It's a pro-Bush editorial -- not a legit critique, jeezLouise, Aug-02-03 09:18 AM, #10
I'm convinced that this is the start of the Rove Attack..., monkeyfister, Aug-02-03 09:23 AM, #11
Dean may be just the right type needed, Party_like_its_1984, Aug-02-03 09:45 AM, #15
What's to lose?, Brian, Aug-02-03 09:30 AM, #12
RE: Are we following Dean off a cliff?, bigmack2007810, Aug-02-03 09:35 AM, #13
The author: Morton Kondracke..., dedalus, Aug-02-03 09:44 AM, #14
Thanks dedalus, NHjay, Aug-02-03 09:50 AM, #17
RE: Are we following Dean off a cliff?, tnb, Aug-02-03 09:48 AM, #16
Flip side, Moon Dragon, Aug-02-03 09:57 AM, #18
Tell me just where Dean is too far left???, up_from_down, Aug-02-03 10:53 AM, #25
Ha!ha! Kondrake takes off where DLC left - if DLC lost, Bushknew, Aug-02-03 11:19 AM, #26
It's just a tad early to call anyone a front-runner, PeteHisey, Aug-02-03 11:38 AM, #27
I'm Uncommitted....But Open Minded..., Oleary25, Aug-02-03 11:48 AM, #28
'92 election: Clinton extremist dangerous leftist...., pancho v, Aug-02-03 11:51 AM, #29
Did'nt they say the same thing about Clinton?, DavidLind, Aug-02-03 11:54 AM, #30
CANARD. Dean will kick Smirk's A$$., Rocker, Aug-02-03 12:46 PM, #32
good for you, felix19, Aug-02-03 01:24 PM, #33
This is the Sun-Times, forradalom, Aug-02-03 03:22 PM, #36
      Rupert Murdock owns the Sun Times, aed, Aug-02-03 03:44 PM, #37
      OTOH, Deborah Orin of the NYPost, bushlvsmoonies, Aug-03-03 07:53 AM, #38

Von RexSat Aug-02-03 08:18 AM
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"Hating Bush is not a left wing position"
In response to Reply #0


          

That's the mistake many of these editorialists choose to make.

Hating corruption and incompetence does not make you a liberal. There are many reasons why people across the spectrum should oppose Bush. The only reason to support him really is if you're a member of the vanishingly small cabal and ultrarich people who benefit from his policies.

For example, if someone said that they oppose military deserters, does that make them "far left"? The list goes on.

  

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mykejSat Aug-02-03 09:07 AM
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"There's a difference"
In response to Reply #1


          

Like it or not, most people in the US don't hate Bush. Even those people who dislike his policies for the most part don't hate him.

The danger is that the people who dislike his policies but don't hate Bush will *think* Dean is simply a fanatic, and refuse to hear any message beyond that. That's why we must run *for* good policy and not simply against monkey boy.

When you run against somebody, you're letting them call the turf. We can't do that.

Don't get me wrong, hatred can swing elections. It worked for the republicans in '94. Of course they shot their wad on that one and after expressing their anger, were happy again by '96.

The national GOP is actually upset about the recall in CA. They're terrified nobody will be angry for next year's election, having gotten it out of their systems this year. They're working on ways of "keeping Californians angry".

  

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BinkySat Aug-02-03 09:13 AM
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"Please provide an example"
In response to Reply #8


          

of Howard Dean expressing "hatred" for Bush.

  

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mykejSat Aug-02-03 10:13 AM
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"I don't think he has"
In response to Reply #9


          

I don't think Dean has shown hatred for Bush, but I do think he can come across as condescending. My point was more that you can't appear to run a negative campaign. Negative campaigns work, but you can't look like you are.

  

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DemgirlSat Aug-02-03 10:19 AM
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"We will win on ideas"
In response to Reply #8


          

exactly the point. Opposition to Bush and his policies is based on our own opinions regarding what's best for the country. Dean's winning support for his ideas and his courage in speaking out.

Unfortunately this has upset not just Republicans but the insular leaders of the Dem Party who became hooked on big campaign donors and their agendas. It's painful for them to turn away from running on the special interests of their big money donors, but its a transition that has to be made. Popular response to Dean and other Dem candidates outside the DC leadership clique is upsetting to them and they're responding with attacks like those in the linked article and others. In the end, its a healthy transition, and one that's necessary - forcing our party to start paying attention to its base. The voting base has now become the grassroots fundraising base. Sure, the big money people from labor, etc. are uncomfortable, but they'll get over it.

We're Dems, too and we want our party back. And we're willing to raise money and donate to candidates who support our ideas and public policy positions. Its about ideas, more than candidates.

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Chris AndersenSat Aug-02-03 02:10 PM
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"RE: Hating Bush is not a left wing position"
In response to Reply #1


          

>Hating corruption and incompetence does not make you a liberal.

Thank you! That puts the whole issue into as simple terms as possible.

The Dean phenomena has NOTHING to do with liberalism. It has everything to do with the desire for real leadership instead of the faux patriotism we get from the Bushies. It has everything to do with having an administration that actually cares about making the future better for all Americans, not just a few rich fundraisers.

Until the commentators understand this they will continue to completely misunderstand what is driving the Dean campaign.

  

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RickbSat Aug-02-03 08:20 AM
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"Is this nation going off a cliff with George?"
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 08:21 AM by Rickb

          

And will we continue to follow him by trying to appeal to those who are appealed to by him?

  

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samelaSat Aug-02-03 08:25 AM
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"Well, if this is going to be the inexorable drumbeat ..."
In response to Reply #0


          

perhaps. I don't know if he can shake off the media heebeejeebies and cooties. If they say you are a serial liar or too liberal or your clothes are too earthy or you're too stiff (geez, is Howard ever stiff! I suppose they are too ashamed to drag that one out again, for fear of the comparison by which Gore looks loosey goosey). I hope he fights back. What's he going to do though ... keep yelling, hey I'm not liberal after gaining the entire liberal base as his backers? They've got him boxed in.

We don't need to repeat that Dean is neither terribly liberal nor progressive. We know that. His anti-war stance is the sole basis on which this dart is thrown. Plus the Vermont civil unions thing ... which basically, he simply did not fight and did as the courts told him. As well he should have.

I dunno. I have to watch him more in the debates. Along with the others. If Clark signs up with Kerry (stop throwing tomatoes at me! It's just my theory, or hope), it may change the picture dramatically.




© samela 2003. All rights reserved.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie,
deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth,
persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.
— John F. Kennedy

  

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felix19Sat Aug-02-03 10:00 AM
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"Nah. It'll be Clark/Hillary dontcha think?"
In response to Reply #3


          

All the polls say they're unbeatable... it would be a dambed romp. That BushDragon would be slayed forevermore.

All this whining by the high punditocracy about the "fact" that Dean is leading the Dems over some cliff or other REALLY exposes the deep dread and the desperation of the enablers of the current regime, that someone has come along (Dean and his campaign) that is systematically exposing them, calling them out, discombobulating them, and building the most extensive and most provocative grass-roots activist campaign since...

Well, you know the comparisons, your Mondales, and your Dukakases and such like. But the true comparisons, in my mind, are to RF Kennedy and to E McCarthy. And yet neither of them truly reflect what is going on.

Basically, Dean has tapped the broadest American political spectrum, not (as the pundits and fraidy-cat corportatists would have it) the narrowest "far-left librul" spectrum. The only people who believe the "far left" cant are those whose nooze comes entirely from Hate Radio and RNC blast faxes, and that's the truth.

As I've said, the Dean campaign is GROWING the electorate, not diminishing it the way the entrenched political interests (both D and R) want. And that's what they fear most of all, an active, strong, vibrant, HUGE electorate. The entrenched political interests long ago learned that the way they could win elections was by suppressing the vote (viz: Florida as a prime example, but there are really too many to mention). Dean is saying FUCK THAT, LET'S GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED! And it's working, and it is terrifying the powers that be.

Nevertheless, if Clark and Hillary hooked up, nobody could beat them. All the polls say so.






"It's time to take our planet back!"
"We will not be silent!"

  

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RussBLibSat Aug-02-03 10:26 AM
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"Hillary said she would not run for the Presidency in '04"
In response to Reply #19


          

but she hasn't said anything about the VP slot, has she? (maybe she has)

KPFT-FM 90.1 Houston
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http://www.kpft.org and
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support radical radio

  

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DemgirlSat Aug-02-03 10:21 AM
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"Several of these articles appearing lately"
In response to Reply #3


          

seem to be planted by Dem leaders anxious to keep the status quo. But we all know the status quo isn't working, didn't work in '02 or in '00.

I want my Crossfire at 7 pm!
Call CNN (440) 827-1700

  

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Nazgul35Sat Aug-02-03 11:56 AM
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"As a supporter of Dean..."
In response to Reply #3


          

I was made aware of him based upon his anti-IRAQ WAR stance...but that alone wasn't enough for me. I am actually encouraged that he is getting so much negative press that says he's too liberal/conservative in one breath....because this campiagn has shown that it is not going to sit back and be defined by anyone but the governor himself...remember the war room?

I've been to the meet-ups and particiapted in the blogs, and one thing I am certain about, that people who are not involved in the Dean campaign don't have the slightest idea what's going on...and are going to continue to be surprised by this candidate...right up to his second term in office....

keep guessing everyone....that's fine with us....there's a feeling of something special going on at the meetups and with this campaign that feeds into the energy that gets us out in the streets...it's like a breath of fresh air!

  

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Chris AndersenSat Aug-02-03 02:19 PM
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"RE: Well, if this is going to be the inexorable drumbeat ..."
In response to Reply #3


          

Fighting back against the smears and misaprehensions is what it is all about and it is the biggest reason why Gore failed to keep Bush from taking over in 2000. It is also the reason why I support Dean over any of the other "electable" candidates: because I know that the #1 requirement for winning next fall will be that our candidate is a fighter who won't take shit from anyone.

I like John Kerry, but I still question whether he has the intestinal fortitude that going up against the Bush smear machine will require. He looks better on paper then Dean. But paper won't win against Bush.

  

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YellowDogJenSat Aug-02-03 08:26 AM
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"Ralph Nader said there was no difference between the parties"
In response to Reply #0


          

and this writer seems to say that's the way it should be. Ridiculous.

We are Democrats, moron (not you, the writer!). We reject Bush and his minions utterly. Why would we support someone who's a kinder, gentler version of Bush? No way. No fucking way. I smell DLC.

I like Pete's perception of us: brass knuckle Democrats. We're mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!

It's extremely positive and refreshing that the candidates are following Dean's lead, and opening their mouths, and showing the public that there IS a clear difference between the GOP and the Democratic party. We aren't assholes, for one thing.

Will that make us lose? Nah! Tough talk from our candidates is going to get us NOTICED.
© YellowDogJen 2003 WWBCD?

  

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NHjaySat Aug-02-03 08:45 AM
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"More of this out there"
In response to Reply #4


          

In the past three days the Wash. Post, the Dallas Morning News, and the Telegraph.co.uk, and now the Chicago Sun-Times, have all had either articles or editorials about how Dean is "too liberal" or "too far left."

Definitely a common theme being peddled regarding Dean.

  

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felix19Sat Aug-02-03 10:03 AM
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"Don't forget, Dean's emblem is a BASEBALL BAT"
In response to Reply #4


          

I'm sure Pete has been consulting on the Dean campaign since way back (though he sez he's a Kerry Man.)




"It's time to take our planet back!"
"We will not be silent!"

  

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Party_like_its_1984Sat Aug-02-03 08:34 AM
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"Counter-Editorial: Are the Republicans Headed For Disaster..."
In response to Reply #0


          


...re-nominating Bush since he may be on trial for treason by the time of the election?



  

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lipreaderSat Aug-02-03 08:47 AM
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"No, we are following him THROUGH A WALL..."
In response to Reply #0


          

Of deceit and ignorance.

We can't cry about the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" wing of the Democratic Party (DLC)and then worry about editorialists who are in their pocket.

If a candidate doesn't represent what the party stands for, who cares if he wins? It's time to dump the "lesser of two evils" line and put our cards on the table. If we're right, we win. If we're wrong, maybe we should all move north.


Attachment #1, ( file)

  

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jeezLouiseSat Aug-02-03 09:18 AM
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"It's a pro-Bush editorial -- not a legit critique"
In response to Reply #0


          

of the Dem candidates -- who are all presented as weak, craven, and flip-flopping on issues, except for Lieberman as the one who agrees/w * on the war. Yet even Lieberman is denigrated within the logic of the editorial at its end.

  

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monkeyfisterSat Aug-02-03 09:23 AM
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"I'm convinced that this is the start of the Rove Attack..."
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 09:25 AM by monkeyfister

          

First we heard stories that the GOP was "worried" about Dean. After that, we read a story of Rove at a Dean rally. Next, we read in FReeperWorld that "Dean is the perfect candidate to run against Bu$h".

All of a sudden, the * Administration comes up with the "High Impact" WMD strategery...

Something smells like a really dead fish here, but I still think Dean is a very viable candidate.

I think we must find a way into this "High Impact" info cache, and try to learn what's SO amazing. Doing that will unwind the GOP generated FUD being levelled at the truthful Dem talk against ShrubCo. by Dean, and the few other outspoken Dem candidates.

As I type this, it occurs to me that with this 'Wait for it" approach to holding WMD info, that Rove KNOWS that they are weak, and is trying to find a way to keep the media from asking questions again. It buys them time, and jaundices the media's eye in weighing the words of Dem's like Dean.

If Rove can gather the RIGHT amount of info, then he can lash together a DOOZER of a story-- timed properly-- and sway the sheep to vote GOPer. Call it a "Hail Mary October Surprise". He's just buying time until another plan is cooked up.

Either that or Team Shrub allows another MASSIVE attack to occur in the next few months, and the sheep Rally 'Round the Flag" once again.

I think they are that desperate.


Tony B.

(editted for topys.)

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Creepin' fascism. That's what we're lookin' at.--Molly

  

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Party_like_its_1984Sat Aug-02-03 09:45 AM
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"Dean may be just the right type needed"
In response to Reply #11


          


What I really like about Dean and Kuchinich is that they have the right attitude for standing up to a thug, a bully.

We need someone who tells the plain truth. Someone who gives Bush no deference or respect because he deserves none.

It's like a schoolyard full of kids finally turning on some thug who's picking on the small and shaking down kids for lunch money. Someone just has to stand up and say that we're not taking it any more.

Imagine that Dean, Kerry, Kuchinich, Edwards and Lieberman are all 8 years old and in that crowd being terrorized.

Who says that the thug should maybe take less of our lunch money and tries to make friends with him? (Lieberman)

Who tells the teacher? (Edwards)

Who waits to see if the crowd is going to do something before making a move? (Kerry)

And who stands up to the thug? (Dean & Kuchinich)

Agree?

  

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BrianSat Aug-02-03 09:30 AM
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"What's to lose?"
In response to Reply #0


          

We've had namby-pamby candidates trying to please the 'mainstream,' as identified by newspapers and pundits, in the past and have LOST every time. We do NOT need another Republican-Lite, either leading the ticket or anyplace else on it.

We have a unifying issue - despising Beorge Bush - and if we let it slip away through trying to be all things to all people we might as well save the money and the effort and quit now.

There IS a difference between positive progress and negative reactionism and we need to exploit it at every opportunity.

The newspapers of the day were nearly 100% against Truman in 1948, solidly behind Dewey and even printed a huge "DEWEY WINS" headline for election night.

But Truman went on the road, rallied the voters by 'telling it like it was' and soundly defeated Dewey, so soundly in fact, that the Republicans are still smarting about it.

It's time to support a candidate with the courage to WIN!!!

  

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bigmack2007810Sat Aug-02-03 09:35 AM
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"RE: Are we following Dean off a cliff?"
In response to Reply #0


          

Hey.. this article suggests a GREAT idea! Why don't we just keep quiet entirely.... go along completely with the Bushcorp program?

We certainly don't want to piss anybody off... or scare them with too much redical talk about medical care or peace or social justice.

We certainly wouldn't want to appear like an Opposition Party!

  

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dedalusSat Aug-02-03 09:44 AM
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"The author: Morton Kondracke..."
In response to Reply #0


          

Say no more...

(He's listed as the author in the version here:
http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205~12238~1538578,00.html)

  

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NHjaySat Aug-02-03 09:50 AM
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"Thanks dedalus"
In response to Reply #14


          

Couldn't find it on the Sun-Times version.

  

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tnbSat Aug-02-03 09:48 AM
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"RE: Are we following Dean off a cliff?"
In response to Reply #0


          

First all, fuck this writer. He (I am assuming it is a he) can write "Spock will win the 2008 election". Writing something doesn't make it true. And no amount of writing will make the feckless mr. bushs' tenure nothing but a complete and utter failure. This entire article is nothing but disinformation.

For me there is no "near hatred". I waste a lot of time and energy hating gw cause he is a smug, cheating, lying, devious, sack of shit. Can't help it and I make no apology for it.

I am not a Dean supporter, but I don't dislike him and if he gets the nod I will support him 100%. But calling him liberal - he must be smoking big vials of crack.

  

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Moon DragonSat Aug-02-03 09:57 AM
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"Flip side"
In response to Reply #0


          

George Bush supporters railed against Gore as a substitute target for their visceral hatred of all things Clinton. They still can't let go. Does anyone of these editorialists accuse (or should I say even recognize) that Shrub panders to the far right wing of his party. That doesn't make him too conservative for the country which may be in the middle of the road. These guys are running on a "hate Clinton" platform. They are governing and enacting policy from the right. Aren't they a bit too extreme?

md

  

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up_from_downSat Aug-02-03 10:53 AM
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"Tell me just where Dean is too far left???"
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 10:54 AM by up_from_down

          

This is more of Rove's Republican mud slinging.

What issue is Dean too far left on? Social Security and Medicare? Why is Bush out lying about what he's doing about that. National security? Show me where Bush has us secure. Gun control? Dean is to the right of most of the Democratic Party here. Education? Jesus Christ, Bush is shoving a far right-wing education agenda down our throats and destroying education.

Where is this "too far to the left?" Is it anything to the left of Bush or Attila the Hun? Are we going to scuttle any chance of change and let Bush give us some fucking jerk like Lieberman? Shit man, I can't tell the difference between Lieberman's stands and those of Paul Wolfowitz. If I wanted a fascist, I'd already be voting for the one we have. Why are we letting Rove choose the Democratic nominee?

This "too far left" is a label that'll stick if we let it. Personally, I think fascism is too far right. Isn't it time to fight this crap?

  

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BushknewSat Aug-02-03 11:19 AM
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"Ha!ha! Kondrake takes off where DLC left - if DLC lost"
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 04:47 PM by Bushknew

          

all credibility with the Dems, we'll certainly listen to Kondrake! Welcome to psy-ops time! Someone posted on DU a Christian Monitor article:" GOP smells sweeps" - scary - the poster added. Of course the article used that old chestnut that even faux discarded about "this popular pResident" - which is where I stopped reading. To Mikej: stop believing GOP operatives who give us advice. better yet: turn everything they say upside down and you'll get the truth!
As for those people who don't hate bush - mebbe if these "fanatic" candidates will just get the word out there about whe media trickles about collusion with the Saudis in 9.11 (pre-after), these sentiments will change. They'll sure won't if they say: we know you are our fearles leader, but I can too speak like you! (Lieberman's platform). Dean&co were instrumental in a big change in poll numbers so they must be doing something right!

  

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PeteHiseySat Aug-02-03 11:38 AM
Member since Apr 23rd 2002
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"It's just a tad early to call anyone a front-runner"
In response to Reply #0


          

Kerry, Dean and Clark, as well as Gore, are all legitimate candidates. It will be months before things get more clear. I'm just going to sit back and watch.

I saw their justice
I saw their will of god
I saw their mercy
It was the firing squad.

The Subhumans

  

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Oleary25Sat Aug-02-03 11:48 AM
Member since May 12th 2002
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"I'm Uncommitted....But Open Minded..."
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Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 11:48 AM by Oleary25

          

If the polls show Dean doesn't have a chance then I'd even vote for Lieberman....

Interesting Clarence from Chicago on McLaughlin last night said it would be between Lieberman and Graham....I must admit I'm very impressed with Graham and don't understand why he doesn't have more traction...

I'm beginning to think we have to deal with this perceived security deficit by dems. What better way to deal with it than with a GENERAL Wesley Clark, or a former chairman of Intelligence committee, Graham.

Perhaps Gore might have to be drafted or maybe Biden or maybe even Hillary. Interesting on Hardball last night polls show that dems for Dean are very open minded and will switch to Kerry if Dean doesn't win. Kerry supporters are more committed to Kerry alone. Dean supporters are very pragmatic...


"...I saw it starting to go wrong before the election (Condi) told me she believed that American troops shouldn’t be keeping the peace—they were the only ones who could kill people and conquer countries..."General Wesley Clarke

  

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pancho vSat Aug-02-03 11:51 AM
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"'92 election: Clinton extremist dangerous leftist...."
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Bush I: Just like your Daddy. Sources: the media in general.

  

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DavidLindSat Aug-02-03 11:54 AM
Member since May 15th 2002
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"Did'nt they say the same thing about Clinton?"
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The editorial writers, that is. I remember around '93, when Rush Limbaugh was disgorging his bile, it was kind of a common knowledge that Bill Clinton was going to lead the country into economic ruin. Rush kept promising, and promising, and promising,...

  

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RockerSat Aug-02-03 12:46 PM
Member since May 13th 2002
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"CANARD. Dean will kick Smirk's A$$."
In response to Reply #0


          

First off, who the hell cares what some editorial in the freaking Sun Times says. I live in chicago and that paper is a joke, except the sports section. Secondly, Illinois will go to the Dems. the Repigs here are pathetically weak.

THIRDLY - Dean is NOT a "far-left" liberal by ANY stretch of the imagination. The only reason they push this canard in the media is because he pointedly criticizes Smirk - as EVERYONE should. He, smartly, has the highest NRA rating - so the gun issue (which I think costs us alot of the blue collar vote) is moot. And he supports a balanced budget - just like Clinton. the Gay union issue won't be big news in 2004, since the Supreme Court decision. If the issues are discussed he can't be tarred as "far-left" because it's simply not the case. That's just ridiculous and Dean will make no bones in correcting people on that.

Bottom line, IMHO, is that Smirk will NOT go down unless his feet are put the fire. And the only guys doing that is Dean, Kucinich and Kerry (a little bit). And Dean is slightly more pissed off about it - which is really why I love the guy.

If Dean got Clarke as his VP candidate and we had a few debates, Smirk would crumble. And cheney (R-Master Criminal) would get his ass handed to him by Clarke.

Fuck the Sun Times. I'm writing a letter to these punks. this bullshit about Dean being "far-left" is patently malicious LIES and these whores know it. You know the Dem candidate will get the typical treatment by the press. The question is who will take, Like Gore did, and who will push back aggressively. I believe Dean will push back and be more effective with the press than Gore was.

  

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felix19Sat Aug-02-03 01:24 PM
Member since May 12th 2002
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"good for you"
In response to Reply #32


          

write the SunTimes and any other outlet that publishes lies and worse under the guise of "opinion."

This "far left" idiocy is patently propaganda and nothing more. Dean is about as "far left" as Nelson Rockefeller. And he's a hell of a lot better ass kicker. Does this make me happy? Well, I wish he were much farther "left," but anyone who will consistently kick that usurper's ass and throw his shit right back in his face has got my attention and more'n'likely my vote.

Bush's pathetic attempts to counter Dean peppered the so-called "news conference" the other day, especially the "gay marriage" thing, and it was ridiculous. Rove doesn't know what to tell his boy to do about Dean and they are just flailing wildly.

As for media coverage, I'm astonished (and pleased) every day at the amount of coverage Dean is getting -- it's hueueueueueuge. Almost every political article or op ed of any kind mentions Dean. It's amazing. Most of the coverage he's getting is VERY POSITIVE, as well. Which makes things like the DLC screeds and the various portentious op-ed pieces and the screech fests on the cable shows and the hate radio bilge seem shrill, out of touch and irrelevant.

Those who read his positions on the issues, hear him talk, meet him come away with a very different impression than the hand-wringers, spoil-sports, and propagandists want you to believe.

But, let's just let that be our secret for the time being.... OK? (Heh heh heh...)


"It's time to take our planet back!"
"We will not be silent!"

  

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forradalomSat Aug-02-03 03:22 PM
Member since May 15th 2002
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"This is the Sun-Times"
In response to Reply #0


          

This rag runs 300-pt headlines like "KOBE: ADULTERY, NOT RAPE" and mostly Neanderthal op-ed pieces. I wouldn't wipe my ass with that so-called newspaper.

  

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aedSat Aug-02-03 03:44 PM
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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"Rupert Murdock owns the Sun Times"
In response to Reply #36


          

This kind of crap is to be expected.

That was one of the biggest heartbreaks in my life. It used to be a decent, left-of-center paper, until it was sold to the Aussie Assh0le.

  

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bushlvsmooniesSun Aug-03-03 07:53 AM
Member since Apr 24th 2002
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"OTOH, Deborah Orin of the NYPost"
In response to Reply #36


          

has written some big cheerleading articles for Dean in the past couple months. She really hates Kerry, as much as she did Gore and Clinton, it seems.

  

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