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Subject: "We must stand up for 'separation'" First topic | Last topic
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GrannycThu Feb-09-12 02:02 PM
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"We must stand up for 'separation'"


          

In 2011, over 753 million in Federal Grants went to Catholic Charities alone.

You and I are not going to change that. But if religious employers start REQUIRING their insurance companies to delete birth control and related prescriptions and/or services from their employee policies.... The feds should eliminate those religious employers from their eligibility for ANY Grants.

  

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I'm probably going to be in trouble, Grannyc, Feb-09-12 02:18 PM, #1
Protecting the LIFE of the 'pre-conceived', Grannyc, Feb-09-12 03:04 PM, #4
      Please Excuse My Crude Wording..., patr1000, Feb-11-12 05:36 AM, #13
           depositing semen anywhere but in a vagina is crime against child, Grannyc, Feb-11-12 11:37 AM, #16
           RE: Please Excuse My Crude Wording..., BusterM, Feb-12-12 09:23 AM, #17
Interesting thoughts, Moon Dragon, Feb-09-12 02:18 PM, #2
Very Interesting thoughts, Grannyc, Feb-09-12 03:02 PM, #3
Precisely, and since when is it that birth control==abortion?, secondharmonic, Feb-10-12 04:52 AM, #5
Basically what Moon dragon said, secondharmonic, Feb-10-12 04:58 AM, #6
And for the ultimate, or close to it, Moon Dragon, Feb-10-12 06:59 AM, #7
Personhood for the PRE-conceived., Grannyc, Feb-10-12 09:37 AM, #8
RE: Precisely, and since when is it that birth control==abortion?, zenferret, Feb-14-12 04:43 PM, #19
      Not exactly what I asked, secondharmonic, Feb-18-12 09:39 AM, #20
Saying a fertilized egg is a human being is the same as, BusterM, Feb-10-12 10:00 AM, #9
They are saying-The UN-FERTILIZED egg is to be left unprotected, Grannyc, Feb-10-12 02:05 PM, #10
Now the media is worried about the corporate insurers.. LOL , Grannyc, Feb-10-12 05:16 PM, #11
      Single payer would solve this whole mess., BusterM, Feb-10-12 09:12 PM, #12
      The reason wymmin pay more in health insurance , secondharmonic, Feb-11-12 05:55 AM, #14
           RE: The reason wymmin pay more in health insurance , Grayfox, Feb-11-12 06:55 AM, #15
           Yes...I Heard They Are Legalizing Rape..., patr1000, Feb-18-12 01:40 PM, #21
                It is the same thing. nt, BusterM, Feb-22-12 04:13 PM, #22
           RE: The reason wymmin pay more in health insurance , BusterM, Feb-12-12 09:30 AM, #18

GrannycThu Feb-09-12 02:18 PM
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"I'm probably going to be in trouble"
In response to Reply #0


          

I put the above on my facebook page.. Oh man.. I wonder how many will de-friend me.

  

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GrannycThu Feb-09-12 03:04 PM
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"Protecting the LIFE of the 'pre-conceived'"
In response to Reply #1


          

>>>current contraception controversy masks a "war on women with all this rhetoric about religious freedom and care for not only the pre-born, but now, with the attack on contraception, you're protecting the preconceived."<<<< ...

  

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patr1000Sat Feb-11-12 05:36 AM
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"Please Excuse My Crude Wording..."
In response to Reply #4


          



But according to the religious right, does that mean if I masterbate,
I am committing an untold number of "abortions?"

How many "abortions" did some Catholic preists commit when they abused kids?

I think the Catholic Church should be more worried about clearing its parishes of perverts than trying to tell me what to do...

  

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GrannycSat Feb-11-12 11:37 AM
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" depositing semen anywhere but in a vagina is crime against child"
In response to Reply #13


          

She ACTUALLY ADDED that amendment to a 'personhood" bill LOL

>>>>>>>Oklahoma State Senator Constance Johnson, a Democrat, has offered an amendment to the "personhood" bill pending in the state legislature. The pending bill, if passed, would declare that "the unborn child at every stage of development (has) all the rights, privileges, and immunities available to other persons, citizens, and residents of this state."

Johnson writes that "the Personhood bill would potentially allow governmental intrusion into families' personal lives by policing what happens to a woman's eggs without any similar thought to what happens to a man's sperm." Her amendment reads:

provided, however, any action in which a man ejaculates or otherwise deposits semen anywhere but in a woman's vagina shall be interpreted and construed as an action against an unborn child.

Her amendment, she continues, "seeks to draw attention to the absurdity, duplicity and lack of balance inherent in the policies of this state in regard to women."
> http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/5668/%E2%80%9Cspilled_semen%E2%80%9D_amendment_to_personhood_bill_offerred_by_oklahoma_democrat <

  

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BusterMSun Feb-12-12 09:23 AM
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"RE: Please Excuse My Crude Wording..."
In response to Reply #13


          

Some, mistakenly, cite Onan in Gen 3 as suggesting that masturbation is a sin. In fact, "onanism" has become a synonym for masturbation. But this is obviously an error, and a rather daft one at that. We know what Onan did, for it is spelled out for us in lurid detail; and we know why it was a sin: he was maliciously using and cheating Tamar in way that was wrong. In any case, what Onan was doing was certainly not masturbating, and you have to be pretty dimwitted to miss this.

http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_masturbation.html

Stupid Catholics. Just like them to extrapolate one part of the bible to mean that masturbation is wrong. On the other hand (pun intended) if a vagina was available to me (assuming it was a nice one) I would gladly deposit all my semen there. These religious zealots are just wanking us off.

  

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Moon DragonThu Feb-09-12 02:18 PM
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"Interesting thoughts"
In response to Reply #0


          

Can Seventh Day Adventist employers or Jehovah's Witness employers opt out of plans that cover blood transfusions? Can Jewish or Muslim employers opt out of plans that do heart repairs with pig valves? Can Christian Scientist employers opt out of plans that cover treatments for diseases?

Can Catholic employers selectively refuse to cover spouses of employees where one of the pair is a divorcee?

md

John Dickinson 1776: Many men without property will protect the possibility of becoming rich, rather than admit the reality of being poor.

Class warfare: A state of conflict in which the (wealthy) aggressors whine like little bitches that the (poor) victims of aggression are committing war crimes.

  

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GrannycThu Feb-09-12 03:02 PM
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"Very Interesting thoughts"
In response to Reply #2


          

And I think we know the answer. They cannot. In fact they can go to jail if they deny treatment to a dying child, for religious reasons.

  

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secondharmonicFri Feb-10-12 04:52 AM
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"Precisely, and since when is it that birth control==abortion?"
In response to Reply #0


          

But anyways, IF they get money from the Feds, they cannot discriminate against those who have no such mideaval notions, or maybe Presbyterian hospitals should say: 'No admittance to Papists'; maybe Muslim hospitals should require its patients to tread on a cross?
And of course, Calflicks themselves don't obey the Pope on this one.

  

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secondharmonicFri Feb-10-12 04:58 AM
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"Basically what Moon dragon said"
In response to Reply #5


          

but was it pandagon or athenae who pointed out yesterday that the city of New York has decided that a certain bus line, privately run but receiving city funds, that runs in Brooklyn Heights and basically services a huge Hasidic community, can no longer force women to ride in the back of the bus 'for religious reasons'. Again, IF you are a public service, you cannot discriminate against anyone wishing to participate in a LEGAL activity. If you are a park and the Tea PArtiers want to hold a rally, you have to issue a permit for some reasonable time and date; and the same if the Occupiers want to rally.

  

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Moon DragonFri Feb-10-12 06:59 AM
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"And for the ultimate, or close to it"
In response to Reply #6


          

We could take a beliver in Jainism who opens a hospice and refuses to offer any health insurance because all insurance covers drugs that kill pathogens.

Yes, I'm being obtuse here, but if we're gonna give credence to one method of showing respect for invisible friends, we have to do it for all.

And now that the Wholy Fucked Up Assholes have admitted that the goal is to remove the contraception coverage mandate completely (Sky buddy forbid if some Sky buddy worshippin', non-church related businessman would have to provide such coverage) then under the Jainist exclusion, no insurance plan could be mandated.

Sometimes I go to extremes.

  

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GrannycFri Feb-10-12 09:37 AM
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"Personhood for the PRE-conceived."
In response to Reply #5
Edited on Fri Feb-10-12 09:57 AM by Grannyc

          

•>>>>>>>Oklahoma State Senator Constance Johnson, a Democrat, has offered an amendment to the "personhood" bill pending in the state legislature. The pending bill, if passed, would declare that "the unborn child at every stage of development (has) all the rights, privileges, and immunities available to other persons, citizens, and residents of this state."

Johnson writes that "the Personhood bill would potentially allow governmental intrusion into families' personal lives by policing what happens to a woman's eggs without any similar thought to what happens to a man's sperm." Her amendment reads:

provided, however, any action in which a man ejaculates or otherwise deposits semen anywhere but in a woman's vagina shall be interpreted and construed as an action against an unborn child.

Her amendment, she continues, "seeks to draw attention to the absurdity, duplicity and lack of balance inherent in the policies of this state in regard to women."<<<<<<<

< http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/5668/%E2%80%9Cspilled_semen%E2%80%9D_amendment_to_personhood_bill_offerred_by_oklahoma_democrat <

  

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zenferretTue Feb-14-12 04:43 PM
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"RE: Precisely, and since when is it that birth control==abortion?"
In response to Reply #5


          

Birth control can be contraception which tries to prevent the sperm from reaching and thus fertilizing the egg. THat is preventing conception.

Birth control can also be contragestation which tried to prevent the implantation of the blatocyst. Contragestation is post conception and could arguably be a form of abortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contragestive

-- good ole zenferret

  

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secondharmonicSat Feb-18-12 09:39 AM
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"Not exactly what I asked"
In response to Reply #19


          

here, you seem to like wiki:

Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo prior to viability. An abortion can occur spontaneously, in which case it is usually called a miscarriage, or it can be purposely induced. The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy.

Thus, devices which prevent implantation are NOT abortifacients. Such as IUDs. Zygotes are usually formed still in the Fallopian tubes, defined not to be 'the uterus' per se'. Hence also German usage 'Abtreibung' (driving forth ...).
Only if a fertilized egg, as a not-yet-implanted zygote is a human being can it be considered murder. Before science knew such details, there was no problem letting women stick little loops up their cervixes and whatnot. Not even the Jewish elders cared, nor christian prelates, and there was no special penalty for beating your wife unless she was gravid i.e. clearly had a developing fetus in her uterus as noticeable from the swelling of her belly, and/or as ascertainable as a child when passed out in her flows.

  

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BusterMFri Feb-10-12 10:00 AM
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"Saying a fertilized egg is a human being is the same as"
In response to Reply #0


          

saying that a plant seed is a plant.

  

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GrannycFri Feb-10-12 02:05 PM
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"They are saying-The UN-FERTILIZED egg is to be left unprotected"
In response to Reply #9


          

..
They are refusing to cover ANY birth control. This includes tubal ligation and vasectomies..

  

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GrannycFri Feb-10-12 05:16 PM
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"Now the media is worried about the corporate insurers.. LOL "
In response to Reply #0


          

„« http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/11/us-usa-contraceptives-aetna-idUSTRE8191ON20120211 <


Amazing. now the GOPPERS are trying to stir the masses to protect insurance profits....

Actually, they are not to be STUCK with any real cost -- just think how many fewer pregnancies will more than cover same.. They just must OFFER to cover contraceptive coverage direct to individuals who¡¦s employers don¡¦t offer said coverage... Are insurance companies really going to give ¡¥reduced¡¦ premiums to religious organizations? .

>>>>>>>>>>>Insurers stuck with cost of Obama birth-control plan<<<<<<<<
The administration has exempted houses of worship from the rule, but requires the coverage be made available to employees of religiously affiliated organizations such as hospitals and universities.
Providing free birth control is not expected to hurt profits for the multibillion dollar insurance industry. But insurance companies questioned the principle of making them pay for coverage with no clear way to recoup the expense. <snip>

Wendell Potter, former top spokesman for insurer Cigna Corp who is now an industry critic.
"Providing contraception, even for free, is cost-effective for insurers so I don't think they'll balk," he said, adding it could even save them money in the long run.
"It may add a little administrative complexity to what they do, but they can deal with it."
<<<<<<

  

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BusterMFri Feb-10-12 09:12 PM
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"Single payer would solve this whole mess."
In response to Reply #11


          

Medicare for all, YAY!

  

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secondharmonicSat Feb-11-12 05:55 AM
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"The reason wymmin pay more in health insurance "
In response to Reply #11


          

according to the industry, is that they gets pregnint, consarn them li'l hussies! Now, if'n not so many of them get preggers, as afore, then they won't be costin' them insurers so darn much neither!

  

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GrayfoxSat Feb-11-12 06:55 AM
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"RE: The reason wymmin pay more in health insurance "
In response to Reply #14


          

We have a segment of our population that has gone mad thanks to some zealous politicians that are pandering for votes. The real harm is that the sane are not voting to get rid of these assholes.
In Va the repugs have taken over the state govt. and are now passing every crazy law that other states have or in the process of passing.

  

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patr1000Sat Feb-18-12 01:40 PM
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"Yes...I Heard They Are Legalizing Rape..."
In response to Reply #15


          


Sorry, but when women are required to get an ultrasound in their vaginas, to me, that is the same thing as rape...

  

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BusterMWed Feb-22-12 04:13 PM
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"It is the same thing. nt"
In response to Reply #21


          

nt

  

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BusterMSun Feb-12-12 09:30 AM
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"RE: The reason wymmin pay more in health insurance "
In response to Reply #14


          

No it's because they have a uterus. How dare they!

  

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